Meeting Minutes - Friday, March 4th 2011 - Decision on priorities for April 2011 release

Convened at 2011-03-04 08:30:34.812296 by antoviaque in #farsides on freenode

= Minutes =


 * [08:30:34] STARTED (antoviaque)
 * [08:32:08] TOPIC: Priorities for the game (antoviaque)
 * [08:42:51] ACCEPTED: Xavier: Talk more about the street demo on the mailing list
 * [08:43:21] IDEA: From Deborah: Focus on the existing to make it really good (missions+design) (antoviaque)
 * [08:43:53] IDEA: From Vlad: Have a clear progression path through a campaign of missions (antoviaque)
 * [08:46:03] IDEA: From David: add 2 layers : macro-storyline and micro-gameplay (levelling, 5mn gameplay per day mafia wars like for instance with arbitration between resouces) (antoviaque)
 * [09:04:40] ACCEPTED: Focus on polishing for the next release (design + missions + campaign) (antoviaque)
 * [09:05:22] ACCEPTED: Try to experiment skinner box concepts if time allows (and if possible without development) (antoviaque)
 * [09:18:58] AGREED: David posts ideas about the microgameplay mechanisms on the ml and we try to see how we can test them with minimal development (antoviaque)
 * [09:23:11] AGREED: If we can work with a storyteller on the story, it would be a good thing to include in the polish (antoviaque)
 * [09:34:50] AGREED: David posts a first draft of requirements for Karen, to discuss on the mailing-list (antoviaque)
 * [09:38:13] AGREED: Every two months/deadline we set the main priorities but not a specific list of tasks, and then see on the morning of each iteration what's the most important tasks that can be done according to those priorities (antoviaque)
 * [09:42:06] ACCEPTED: Discuss scrum on the ml and see if installing the tool is easy (Xavier) (antoviaque)
 * [09:46:27] AGREED: Deborah, Vlad, David and Xavier will post on http://farsides.com/blog/groups/ instead of the mailing-list from now on (and anybody else who wants to help testing is free to join and follow the conversations there) (antoviaque)
 * [09:53:11] ACCEPTED: Deborah: designing 3 different concepts for the farsides.com website (today) (antoviaque)
 * [09:53:35] ACCEPTED: Xavier: synchronize with smitha for dates & collecting everyone's requirements for Brazil, recruitment & networking (incl. Brazilian contacts), check deadlines for conventions applications, find organizer for street demo event & get design for farsides.com integrated if we have it on time [next week] (antoviaque)
 * [09:58:29] ACCEPTED: Vlad: Implement gauge unlocking mechanisms (today) (antoviaque)
 * [10:08:55] AGREED: Implementation of gauge unlocking mechnism is with levels. And when a level is met it unlocked missions and you cannot go down in level even if you loose gauge points (antoviaque)
 * [10:11:49] ENDED (antoviaque)

= Present =


 * da
 * antoviaque
 * tartarugafeliz
 * vlad___

= Raw Log =

[08:30:34] eve: start meeting

[08:30:34] * eve gets out his memo-pad and cracks his knuckles

[08:31:02] ok, so first thanks for taking the time to review the game and the feedback!

[08:31:35] Really interesting to read what everyone thinks, especially you vlad and deborah, I didn't knew what you were thinking

[08:31:51] so let's start with this

[08:32:08] eve: topic Priorities for the game

[08:32:08] Current Topic: Priorities for the game

[08:32:17] cool!

[08:32:20] :D

[08:32:34] who starts?

[08:32:39] you can : )

[08:32:43] ok!

[08:33:00] for me, as I wrote on the email, the priority is making what we already have VERY GOOD.

[08:33:12] we have to polish it to a final design

[08:33:15] eve: thanks

[08:33:15] no worries, antoviaque

[08:33:15] thanks!

[08:33:24] hahahaha

[08:33:26] ;p

[08:33:58] improving what we have!

[08:33:59] yup, so you mean a focus on the design and the existing missions?

[08:34:04] exactly

[08:34:21] give a very professional and refined feeling for it, its really missing

[08:35:09] maybe that goes well with what Vlad was saying about a campaign - do you want to comment vlad?

[08:36:08]  well, my feeling is that we need to increase played engagement

[08:36:30]  and i was thinking that a campaign would maybe help us achieve that

[08:36:44] (btw can be good to say "ok" before replying to know that you're typing)

[08:36:56]  ok :)

[08:37:19] ok

[08:37:21] :P

[08:37:26] grrrr ahahah

[08:37:34] eve: more coffee please

[08:37:34] antoviaque: *blink*

[08:39:13] The way I see it, your proposition is about making sure the player feels more engaged with the game, by taking him into a progression path, right?

[08:39:24]  exactly

[08:40:30] This could complement Deborah's idea - by focusing on the existing missions but making sure the player is accompanied and has reasons to come back to play the other ones

[08:40:38] yeap

[08:40:51] david do you want to jump in?

[08:40:55] and it would be good to put a deadline on it to motivate us! :D

[08:41:14] there is one already: the street demo at the end of next month : )

[08:41:16]  sure

[08:41:32] oh its at the end of april? I didn't knew that

[08:41:47] where is it going to be? here in paris?

[08:41:59] The exact date is not set yet, but in my email I talked about the end of next month

[08:42:51] eve: idea Talk more about the street demo on the mailing list

[08:42:51] Idea recorded: Talk more about the street demo on the mailing list

[08:43:04]  i agree with Deb - improving the missions. And i think that if we add 2 layers : macro-storyline and micro-gameplay (levelling, 5mn gameplay per day mafia wars like for instance with arbitration between resouces) we can help with Vlad's concern for retention

[08:43:21] eve: idea From Deborah: Focus on the existing to make it really good (missions+design)

[08:43:21] Idea recorded: From Deborah: Focus on the existing to make it really good (missions+design)

[08:43:47]  the missions could be like the critical path between these two layers (like the main quest in an rpg)

[08:43:53] eve: idea From Vlad: Have a clear progression path through a campaign of missions

[08:43:53] Idea recorded: From Vlad: Have a clear progression path through a campaign of missions

[08:44:55] Yup, I tend to agree with you, I think it's missing a part of the gameplay, the "skinner box" part

[08:45:14] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operant_conditioning_chamber

[08:45:22] eve: what is skinner box?

[08:45:22] tartarugafeliz: I'm afraid I have no idea

[08:45:39] eve: wikipedia skinner box

[08:45:39] antoviaque: Excuse me?

[08:45:43] damn

[08:46:03] eve: idea From David: add 2 layers : macro-storyline and micro-gameplay (levelling, 5mn gameplay per day mafia wars like for instance with arbitration between resouces)

[08:46:03] Idea recorded: From David: add 2 layers : macro-storyline and micro-gameplay (levelling, 5mn gameplay per day mafia wars like for instance with arbitration between resouces)

[08:46:06]  eve: the coffee is good, apart from that I'm a bit disappointed

[08:46:06] da: Got it

[08:46:08] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slot_machine and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massive_multiplayer_online_game are sometimes citedhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operant_conditioning_chamber#cite_note-0http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operant_conditioning_chamber#cite_note-0http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operant_conditioning_chamber#cite_note-0http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operant_conditioning_chamber#cite_note-1http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki

[08:46:08] haahahahahah

[08:47:22] The main thing about this micro gameplay part is that I'm not sure which one we should implement yet

[08:47:42] And I like the approach of trying to polish what already exists

[08:47:58] Maybe we could do two things:

[08:48:08]  when you say microgame play are you referring to the hackit minigame and similar

[08:48:10]  ?

[08:48:32] ah, I went too fast - maybe you want to elaborate first david

[08:50:32]  micro gameplay for me is two things : 1) the resources, leveling and economy of the game. Basically the mechanisms that drive facebook games, or the sims, or MMOs introductions. And 2) the 5mn gameplay per day, which can be simple clicks and arbitration like in the sims or in mafia wars, or can also be simple arcade game, like the hackit minigame, it's open

[08:51:27]  aha, ok

[08:52:21] ok

[08:52:44] so what I could propose is the following - let me know what you think:

[08:53:35] we try to figure out what could be this gameplay and maybe try to do 1-2 quick tests to find the right skinner box for HPO

[08:54:06] (not necessarily development wise actually, can be something we experiment with papers or a wiki page)

[08:54:36] but for this iteration we focus on making the existing mechanisms great, with a progression path/campaign

[08:54:59] the goal being to know what would be the micro gameplay to include it for the next iteration

[08:55:08] how does it sound?

[08:55:37]  what is an iteration ? Until the street demo ?

[08:55:43] ah yep

[08:55:52] we probably need a distinct name

[08:56:15] let's say a release then

[08:56:31] (and yes it's the player test with the demo on the street)

[08:57:26]  i like that. I would also include in the release a first work on the macro storyline / context. We'll need it before implementing the skinner box because it gives the coloration

[08:57:42] I like it too… what about the minigame we created? we just need to polish it…

[08:58:12] yup, it definitely needs polishing

[08:58:14] ahh sorry you want to think about other ideas?

[08:58:21] not necessarily

[08:58:56] I liked that part about your proposition: try to make what we did well by taking into account players comments - there is 1-2 leads about that

[08:59:11] the only issue is to not plan to do too much

[08:59:18] yes because the feedback is very good

[08:59:25] agree

[08:59:26] about the minigame?

[08:59:34] about the whole game

[08:59:43] ah yes, about the whole game I agree

[08:59:46] what people miss is the polishing that I'm talking about

[09:00:31] I think it misses polishing, but Vlad has a point when he talks about the fact that retention is not good

[09:00:51] There is something to find with the game mechanisms that we don't have yet - so there is more than polishing

[09:01:12] But for that iteration, polishing is already a step big enough I think

[09:01:40] I see

[09:02:02]  maybe a first mini-skinner box based on what we have, the trust gauge ? Missions would become available according to the trust and we could build a campaign out of this

[09:02:04] there's polishing in the game design too, right? its not just the design itself

[09:02:21] yup, that's a good starting point yep

[09:02:27] agreed

[09:02:33] I think it definitely fits into Vlad's idea of a campaign

[09:02:39] no?

[09:02:41] true!

[09:02:49] and it would be good for the teaser too

[09:03:02] because then people play on the streets only the beginning and go home to play the rest

[09:03:06]  yup, could work

[09:03:16] yep

[09:03:41] david, good for you too?

[09:03:50] <da> yep

[09:04:08] <da> what about the context / storyline ?

[09:04:40] eve: accepted Focus on polishing for the next release (design + missions + campaign)

[09:04:40] Accepted: Focus on polishing for the next release (design + missions + campaign)

[09:05:22] eve: accepted Try to experiment skinner box concepts if time allows (and if possible without development)

[09:05:22] Accepted: Try to experiment skinner box concepts if time allows (and if possible without development)

[09:05:54] sounds good said like that?

[09:06:34] yeap

[09:07:07] <da> For the skinner box, I actually see 2 parts : 1) for the coming release, try to build a first one based on trust with limited or no development 2) brainstorm in parallel on the more elaborate skinner box for the next release

[09:07:16] <da> correct ?

[09:07:25] hmmm

[09:07:40] 1) will actually require some development - for me it's the campaign concept

[09:08:31] <vlad___> as long as we have a certain gauge level as the unlocking mechanism for missions it shouldn't be to hard

[09:08:37] 2) brainstorm is good, but what we need is to try out little things without or with very little development, to have something more concrete for the next release

[09:08:47] vlad___: agreed

[09:11:36] <da> we agree on the test regarding the campaign in the coming release. For the next step (release after that), I think we need to design a small ecosystem to be tested (resources/levelling/5mn gameplay per day), and I'm not sure how we can do this completely iteratively without a little bit of game deseign specs first, how do you see things ?

[09:12:56] I think it would be much more effective to try it concretely rather than just describe it - otherwise we risk the big specs that don't give something fun, and we'll lose time in the next iteration

[09:14:04] Maybe the best would be to just quickly try out something one day - for example adding this mechanism inside a mission, or as a standalone prototype

[09:14:24] <da> what I'm trying to achieve here is to see how we can speed up things a bit. So I agree with the iteration, but maybe if we can find more people willing to work in the coming weeks, we could start iterations on that, even if they are not released in the stree release

[09:14:44] it's actually something you could probably code yourself if you have ideas, btw

[09:15:33] We can't really rely on that yet - especially because you'd need both code and gamedesign skills to delegate that to someone new

[09:16:09] We can talk about how to achieve this on the ml if you want - maybe post your ideas and we see how we can proceed with the test?

[09:18:01] <da> ok

[09:18:19] ok good

[09:18:58] eve: agreed David posts ideas about the microgameplay mechanisms on the ml and we try to see how we can test them with minimal development

[09:18:58] Agreed: David posts ideas about the microgameplay mechanisms on the ml and we try to see how we can test them with minimal development

[09:19:04] ok like that?

[09:19:12] <da> yep

[09:19:37] ok, all good for the priorities?

[09:19:43] <da> this not being in the backlog for the next release right ?

[09:19:55] <vlad___> yup, it's good for me

[09:20:36] da: nope, it's only if time allows, the priority is the polish + campaign

[09:20:50] ah, yes, the storyline

[09:20:57] <da> yes that's what i was suggesting

[09:21:27] It depends on recruitment here - if we could have Karen to work on it in the coming weeks it could be a nice part of the polish I think

[09:21:49] And also feed the discussion and tests for the next release probably

[09:22:12] But it depends on recruitment, so it's hard to put it as a priority, no?

[09:22:19] <da> yes

[09:22:50] ah yes, we need polishing on the texts urgent!

[09:23:07] if we can't hire I can try to help

[09:23:11] eve: agreed If we can work with a storyteller on the story, it would be a good thing to include in the polish

[09:23:11] Agreed: If we can work with a storyteller on the story, it would be a good thing to include in the polish

[09:23:41] ok, good - would be nice to have a good story, it would definitely help with engagement imho

[09:23:54] (curiosity about what happens next...)

[09:24:18] not only that, I think we need a more fluid and coloquial text

[09:24:29] the one we have right now is very serious and long

[09:24:40] yup!

[09:25:08] especially because the players really had fun playing with the EagleOne's answers - we could probably take more advantage of that

[09:25:37] It makes me think Karen said she would need a list of requirements, those are good ones to put I think

[09:25:57] Maybe we could try to list the constraints to give her for the storyline

[09:26:20] these are the main ones I think

[09:27:00] Things like: make the game a little less serious, play more with answers in the chat, think about the fact that a microgameplay will be implemented, etc.

[09:27:18] David, would you help with that?

[09:28:28] <da> sure. I think we also need a global context. Simple structure, but that will let us elaborate in the future. Create engagement by defining sides and objectives, for instance for the various departments of the organization.

[09:29:29] <da> for instance in nomine satanis is a good structure imo, of course not with angels and deamons in our case. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Nomine_Satanis/Magna_Veritas

[09:30:10] <da> but it gives a clear structure and it's easy to create stories based on that. But of course the writer will see if it's fitted

[09:30:28] ok, so a good discussion to have on this, good - do you want to post a first list there that we can discuss?

[09:30:52] <da> regarding the chat, wasn't there also the idea of reducing it through video or file system ?

[09:32:00] Yup, it's one of the ideas

[09:32:37] I think for this meeting we don't need to decide the specifics of tasks to complete, otherwise we'll create a huge list and we'll be frustrated to not finish it on time

[09:33:33] What I had in mind (but we can change if it's not a good idea) was to set the main priorities, and then see on the morning of each iteration what's the most important tasks that can be done according to those priorities

[09:33:59] Sound good?

[09:34:28] the most important tasks for the day right?

[09:34:50] eve: agreed David posts a first draft of requirements for Karen, to discuss on the mailing-list

[09:34:50] Agreed: David posts a first draft of requirements for Karen, to discuss on the mailing-list

[09:34:57] yep

[09:35:07] iteration = day, release = 2 months deadline

[09:35:34] ah sorry

[09:35:39] ok

[09:35:59] vlad___ ?

[09:36:06] <vlad___> yup, i'm here

[09:36:31] ok for you the difference between what we decide now and what we decide every day?

[09:37:00] <vlad___> yes, it's clear

[09:37:03] ok

[09:37:06] <da> me too

[09:37:19] ok

[09:38:13] eve: agreed Every two months/deadline we set the main priorities but not a specific list of tasks, and then see on the morning of each iteration what's the most important tasks that can be done according to those priorities

[09:38:13] Agreed: Every two months/deadline we set the main priorities but not a specific list of tasks, and then see on the morning of each iteration what's the most important tasks that can be done according to those priorities

[09:38:23] ok, something else?

[09:39:04] <da> this last part could be related to the mail i sent reaging scrum. Maybe we can discuss this next week once the scrum too is installed and we all have a look at it ?

[09:39:24] <da> tool, not too

[09:39:55] I haven't had a chance to read the email yet, sorry for that

[09:40:11] <da> no pb

[09:40:34] Will it require some sysadmin on the server?

[09:40:40] <da> yes i guess

[09:41:24] ok so not sure I can do it quickly, I'll have a look first - if you want we can see on the mailing list once I had time to look at it

[09:41:35] <da> ok

[09:42:06] eve: accepted Discuss scrum on the ml and see if installing the tool is easy (Xavier)

[09:42:06] Accepted: Discuss scrum on the ml and see if installing the tool is easy (Xavier)

[09:42:21] <da> one point on my side - the website. Deb do you need something following the mail I sent ?

[09:42:41] no, its good to go

[09:42:49] ok

[09:43:00] one last thing for me: buddypress

[09:43:10] I've created the groups, I think we're good to go

[09:43:31] ok to start testing it from now on?

[09:43:44] <da> ok

[09:43:54] <vlad___> yup. can you paste in the link again

[09:44:16] ok

[09:44:27] http://farsides.com/blog/groups/

[09:46:27] eve: agreed Deborah, Vlad, David and Xavier will post on http://farsides.com/blog/groups/ instead of the mailing-list from now on (and anybody else who wants to help testing is free to join and follow the conversations there)

[09:46:27] Agreed: Deborah, Vlad, David and Xavier will post on http://farsides.com/blog/groups/ instead of the mailing-list from now on (and anybody else who wants to help testing is free to join and follow the conversations there)

[09:47:13] da: the roadmap now?

[09:48:46] tartarugafeliz: for you today it's designing 3 different concepts for the farsides.com website, right? (thanks for moving your day to today btw, will help with recruitment to have the website ready earlier!)

[09:49:05] yes

[09:49:06] vlad___: what do you think would be good to work on today, considering the priorities?

[09:49:09] you're welcome!

[09:49:16] tartarugafeliz: cool :D

[09:50:20] <vlad___> i think i can start to work on the gauge level unlocking mechanism

[09:50:47] <vlad___> or i can work on things discussed in the previous meetings?

[09:51:25] My tasks for next week: synchronize with smitha for dates & collecting everyone's requirements for Brazil, recruitment & networking (incl. Brazilian contacts), check deadlines for conventions applications, find organizer for street demo event & get design for farsides.com integrated if we have it on time

[09:51:55] What were they? I have the memory of a red fish : )

[09:52:50] what were what?

[09:53:11] eve: accepted Deborah: designing 3 different concepts for the farsides.com website (today)

[09:53:11] Accepted: Deborah: designing 3 different concepts for the farsides.com website (today)

[09:53:35] eve: accepted Xavier: synchronize with smitha for dates & collecting everyone's requirements for Brazil, recruitment & networking (incl. Brazilian contacts), check deadlines for conventions applications, find organizer for street demo event & get design for farsides.com integrated if we have it on time [next week]

[09:53:35] Accepted: Xavier: synchronize with smitha for dates & collecting everyone's requirements for Brazil, recruitment & networking (incl. Brazilian contacts), check deadlines for conventions applications, find organizer for street demo event & get design for farsides.com integrated if we have it on time [next week]

[09:53:51] tartarugafeliz: was talking to vlad___ : )

[09:53:57] <vlad___> in no particular order: modify the close icon for dialog windows, try different open close effects for windows, clean up code no longer used, look at js tests, go through some items in the feedback

[09:54:09] sorry!

[09:55:18] I think the following all fit the priorities: modify the close icon for dialog windows, try different open close effects for windows, clean up code, go through some items in the feedback, gauge level unlocking mechanism

[09:55:39] maybe wait for Deborah to work a bit on the design to work on effects & icons, no?

[09:55:53] yes...

[09:56:10] I have a last question: if I need to send the layout of the site should I publish on the group page?

[09:56:18] tartarugafeliz: yes

[09:56:39] antoviaque: can you teach me how to do that later?

[09:56:56] (and actually cleanup of code could be kept aside for now too, it fits the priorities but I don't know how many iterations we'll have until the release yet)

[09:57:32] so it would give to choose from items from the feedback or gauge unlocking mechanisms - which one would you enjoy more to work on today?

[09:57:49] <vlad___> definitively the unlocking mechanism :)

[09:57:57] deal then : )

[09:58:26] <vlad___> ok, i'll get right on it

[09:58:29] eve: accepted Vlad: Implement gauge unlocking mechanisms (today)

[09:58:29] Accepted: Vlad: Implement gauge unlocking mechanisms (today)

[09:58:38] <da> i'm not sure i understand what the unlockin mech is, Vlad can you sum it up please ?

[09:59:18] <vlad___> it's a system that will activate / deactivate mission based on the gauge level of a user

[10:00:00] <vlad___> this will simulate a user character development. gain more gauge points, unlock more missions

[10:00:49] <da> but the gauges loses points with time correct ?

[10:01:10] Would there be different levels? (like, when you fill the gauge you get to the next level, resetting the gauge to zero and augmenting the number of points you need to reach the next level) --> basically the skinner box model of mmos & co

[10:03:01] <vlad___> the way i saw it was to define for each mission the gauge requiements

[10:03:26] <vlad___> and if they are not met the mission will appear locked with a message telling the requirements

[10:04:17] <da> agreed. But isn't it weird with the current system where the gauge loses points with time ?

[10:04:21] <vlad___> but, i can do it with levels. And when a level is met it unlocked missions and you cannot go down in level even if you loose gauge points

[10:05:29] <da> what is the objective for you ? For me, it's to unlock missions progressively and to limitate the amount of gaming available every day

[10:05:29] yup, it addresses david's issue here too, good for me

[10:05:49] <da> so the level solves the unlock part agreed

[10:06:12] <da> but then the gauges that loses points with time pushes the player to come back

[10:06:28] <da> is there something missing for the system to work fine you think ?

[10:07:11] not sure i get you david

[10:07:13] <vlad___> the sytem will work, but i don't think it will limit the time spent daily. this will imply a notion of resources that decrease

[10:07:26] <vlad___> and we don't have that

[10:07:57] <da> i agree we can start with the level that unlocks. And see in a future iteration how to manage the time the player spends playing each day. Works for you ?

[10:08:07] sounds good for me

[10:08:36] <vlad___> yup, all good

[10:08:55] eve: agreed Implementation of gauge unlocking mechnism is with levels. And when a level is met it unlocked missions and you cannot go down in level even if you loose gauge points

[10:08:55] Agreed: Implementation of gauge unlocking mechnism is with levels. And when a level is met it unlocked missions and you cannot go down in level even if you loose gauge points

[10:09:10] anything else for this meeting?

[10:09:31] <da> i'm good

[10:09:32] yes, lets declare the end! :D

[10:10:02] <da> updating the task follow-up on wiki...

[10:10:49] vlad___: ok?

[10:11:18] (...to end the meeting)

[10:11:49] eve: end meeting